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RichardC
Posts : 114
Join date : 2018-02-12
Location : Sydney, Australia
https://coldwarhot.blogspot.com.au/

Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:08 pm
Here's a spot for you to put any feedback/comments/suggestions or questions regarding the BG:NORTHAG West German lists.

Thanks

Richard
CAG 19
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:06 pm
West German vehicles:

M113A1 G - Command Post
M113A1 G - Signals
Beobachtungspanzer

Have armour profile 2/2/1/1 all other M113 variants have 2/1/1/1

Fuchs is listed as having 3 MGs on Pintle mount.
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:42 am
CAG 19 wrote:M113A1 G - Command Post
M113A1 G - Signals
Beobachtungspanzer

Have armour profile 2/2/1/1 all other M113 variants have 2/1/1/1

I'm trying to work out if that was a mistake or intentional. Realistic me say definitely a mistake - so I'll fix that.

Fuchs is listed as having 3 MGs on Pintle mount.

Fixed. I know I've seen pics of it with 3 MGs but I know believe the rear two are those carried by the troops in the rear.

Thanks for picking up those.

Richard
CAG 19
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:44 pm
Leopard 2A1 missing the Advanced Armour Special rule ?
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:05 pm
CAG 19 wrote:Leopard 2A1 missing the Advanced Armour Special rule ?

Hi CAG 19

My understanding is that the initial batches of Leopard 2's did not have Chobham armour hence no Advanced Armour in the stat line. I'd be happy to be told I'm wrong!

Thanks

Richard
CAG 19
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:10 pm
Don't mind either way. It came out as I was cross checking the HESH/HEAT and special armour handling rules.

2A1 wasn't fielded until 1982 - 1983

"But it was revealed in 1976 that the early Leopard 2 models armour was also based on Chobham, thou it did not share the same technology unique to Chobham armour AKA Burlington.
17 prototypes were built in 1971 for field-testing, mounting various cannons including the L7A3 105mm & the Rheinmetall L44 120mm, with different fire control systems. Eventually the Rheinmetall L44 120mm smoothbore was selected as the main gun.
The US also received some of these prototypes and carried out field tests of various cannon and fire control systems well into 1976 whilst testing their own XM1 (which would become the M1 Abram’s). The US Army found that both prototypes were equally matched in propulsion and firepower, but the XM1 Chobham armour was better than the Leo2’s armour."

Also iirc the comment during the Challenger 2/M1A1/Leopard 2 selection for the RAC when the Chally reversed into the L2 and alledgedly cracked the armour
nickdives
Posts : 61
Join date : 2018-02-12

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:30 am
The Chally 1 reversing into the Leopard was just after the disastrous Royal Hussars run at the Canada cup, think it happened on Hohne ranges, and was labelled as the C1 getting it's revenge.
SailorMoon
Posts : 5
Join date : 2018-03-26
Location : Moscow, Mordor

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:39 am
Just spotted two mistakes:
Leopard 1A3 shouldnt have Advanced Stabiliser, it was introduced in 1A4 version
Jaguar 2 shouldnt have hull MG, it has smoke launchers instead.

Also i have a question about additional Marder PzG squad in HQ section. This guys ride marder without Milan, but have PzF44 and their total cost is 40 points. In comparsion, regular Marder squad have Milan, but doesnt have PzF44 and their total cost is 35 points. Seems odd to me.
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:02 pm
Hi SailorMoon
Thanks for the pick-ups on the West German AFV data table. I've fixed those now.

You are also correct on the cost of the Panzergrenadier Forward HQ's additional Marder squad. I agree that the cost is too high and have now lowered it to 25.

Thanks

Richard
SailorMoon
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:29 am
Richard, ive spotted another strange thing about FRG tank trops: while all combat platoons have veteran rating, tank HQ and recon still has regular rating, shouldn't they be veterans too?
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:33 am
Hi SailorMoon

Another good pick up. If you look at the Additional Main Battle Tank section under TANK UNITS you'll see that the Leo 2's have veteran crews while the Leo 1's have regular crews. I've now adjusted all the BR information under the Leopard 1 Platoon so they show as regular. I've gone into the Panzer Forward HQ and adjusted the Leo 2A1 and 2A4 to have "+1-v BR" (as Leo 2s are worth 4 BR each rather than the standard 3 - and are veterans. The Recce tanks are all Leo 1's so they also remain Regular.

Thanks for helping me fix things

Richard
SailorMoon
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:38 am
Thank you for the quick response and all the great work you've done so far!
P.S. Tomorrow we will playtest the rules with german vs soviet 500p lists, i will write our thoughts afterwards.
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:49 pm
Thanks SailorMoon

I would have like to post up the slightly revised West German list, but I'm not at work until next week and my tech at home is really old - so I'm not able to do it here. Not much has changed apart from the Veteran/regular thing we discussed, the PG Squad attached to the Fwd HQ went down to 25 pts and no M72 LAWs in the list

Richard
SailorMoon
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:13 am
Another spot: Flakpanzer Gepard have 2/1/1/1 armor stats. But its basep on Leopard 1, shouldn't it have somewhat similar stats to Leo1?
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Gunbird
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:47 pm
Another spot: Flakpanzer Gepard have 2/1/1/1 armor stats. But its basep on Leopard 1, shouldn't it have somewhat similar stats to Leo1?

It has slightly thinner armour vs the Leopard 1 and is rated vs 14.5mm, rifle calibre bulet and shell splinters
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on West German Lists

on Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:18 am
My understanding is the same as Johan's. below is from Military-Today.com

"Hull of the Gepard provides protection against small caliber cannons, while turret protection is only against small arms fire and artillery shell splinters. It is also fitted with NBC protection system."

Thanks

Richard
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