Feedback/Comments/Questions on East German Lists

Today I've added the second of at least three proposed East German lists to the main thread in the BG NORTHAG Development Forum.  To make it as easy as possible I'll list it here as well:

East German Motorised Rifle Division Battlegroup
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1f0GNxz1MuBH8KMqA9rii7QvD2WgnkKGC

East German Panzer Division Battlegroup
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WbSQJ7fyF5VcWL4TdhcijPl_MoqHnJuB

East German Paramilitary Battlegroup
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1WqViykTZtlSIUuAavFBIYHtlqC7d1hga

I can honestly say it would not have been possible for the East German lists to have been ready by now but for the extensive research efforts and help provided by Paul Cziganj (as known as Kirill_GV001 on this forum).  Paul and I will be collaborating together to produce a number of other WARPAC lists over the next few months, so look forward to more East German lists followed by several Polish lists and then who knows what will come next.

Anyway - please have a look at the list and under this post list any questions/feedback/corrections/comments as you see fit.

Thanks

Richard

The list looks great! I can't wait to try it out. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not including the BM-21 as on table artillery? Simply because their engagement range would put them as far away from the front at possible? I have seen them included in some other lists.

Very Team Yankee to have Div arty supporting a Company sized Battlegroup! Besides the Min range of the BM-21 was about 3 miles.

I don't think any artillery should be on table in a Cold War game...

I think Piers, it should be scenario specific, certainly a 2S1 Bty could be forwards with the Vanguard Company and were capable and trained, as were our Abbots and 109s to fire in the direct fire role! However as a rule only the OP should be represented on the table.

Have to agree, 2s1 Btys were trained for this.

Also, BM-21 should be only available as 'Additional Fire Support'.

Good work BTW.

Paul

Agree Nick... scenarios only perhaps... but we will see.

Drop me a PM about the use of 2S1s in the forward vanguard would you...

http://coldwargamer.blogspot.com/2015/07/ttp-soviet-advanced-guard-and-march.html

As ever from Andy some good stuff. Somewhere I have an old 7 Int Company Aide Memoire which has it all laid down. I shall dig it out.

Bonde wrote:Can I ask what the reasoning is for not including the BM-21 as on table artillery? Simply because their engagement range would put them as far away from the front at possible? I have seen them included in some other lists.

Hey Bonde

Everything Nick, Piers and Paul have said is accurate. If you look at the recently edited Soviet lists all of them (except Soviet Naval Infantry) have had the BM-21s and a number of other high level artillery assets removed from the artillery section of the list and can now be found only in the additional fire support section. This means they are all now off-table.

I've left the BM-21 in the SNI list as it was found Regimental rather than divisional level. The SNI had no 2S1 batteries. Still, I'm sure it could be easily argued that even here they should really just be off table assets.

Richard

I see your points gentlemen. I have always seen having division level artillery support on the table in company sized games as a bit silly, especially for miniature wargames taking place after 1900 and for scales larger than 10mm, but I guess I got used to it, with many game systems shoehorning all kinds of artillery support in, even vulnerable units unable of providing direct fire. I imagine this is because companies want more miniatures to sell, but that I why I have always liked the aesthetic option from Battlegroup of having off-table artillery.

RichardC wrote:

Bonde wrote:Can I ask what the reasoning is for not including the BM-21 as on table artillery? Simply because their engagement range would put them as far away from the front at possible? I have seen them included in some other lists.

Hey Bonde

Everything Nick, Piers and Paul have said is accurate.  If you look at the recently edited Soviet lists all of them (except Soviet Naval Infantry) have had the BM-21s and a number of other high level artillery assets removed from the artillery section of the list and can now be found only in the additional fire support section.  This means they are all now off-table.

I've left the BM-21 in the SNI list as it was found Regimental rather than divisional level.  The SNI had no 2S1 batteries.  Still, I'm sure it could be easily argued that even here they should really just be off table assets.

Richard

Ah, thanks for the explanation Richard I thought it was an error of some sort that the BM-21's were left in the Naval Infantry list, as I was confused why they suddenly went missing from the other lists.

I have now added the East German Panzer Division List to the first post in this thread and to the major post with all the lists.

Thanks

Richard

Just letting you know I have added the East German Paramilitary Battlegroup list to the first post in this thread and to the major post with all the lists.

The primary idea behind this list is to provide opportunities for players who want to run some games set in Berlin to have access to some of the units that would have been at the forefront of the battles - excluding frontline NVA or Soviet troops.

So the list includes units from Wachregiment "Feliks Dzerzhinsky" of the Stasi, the Kampfgruppen der Arbeiterklasse or "Combat Groups of the Working Class" and Grenztruppen (or Border Troops) - all of which had a role in Operation Stoss - the planned capture of West Berlin.

Hope you enjoy

Thanks

Richard

Sorry, but the link to the .pdf file of the paramilitary list redirects to the Panzerdivision list... Could you please fix it? Thanks!

Now fixed - sorry!

Richard

Here is the East German AFV Data Table

East German AFV Data

Please let me know if you have any questions or find any errors etc.

Thanks

Richard