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NTM
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Join date : 2018-02-12

British tanks in Tunisia

on Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:46 pm
I know I'm not going to get a magic definitive answer but wondering what the group think regarding the colour of 1st Army tanks in Tunisia. If pushed I'd go with SCC2 but KG3 seems to be a possibility. North Irish Horse veteran Gerry Chester stated his units tanks were 'Tunisian Green' which he described as lighter than SCC15. I'm interested in the time when 6th Armoured was equipped with Crusaders and Valentines I relatively sure that Shermans were initially left olive drab then later painted light mud.

So in a nutshell just wondering what others have done and if possible post pictures.

Thanks in advance

Nigel
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Piers
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:52 pm
I'm just looking at this myself for some NIH Churchills.
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Iain R
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:05 pm
I have two bookmarks for MAFVA/Matador Models pages with details on that very subject. Unfortunately I can't post them justnow, 'cos noobness. Once my first week is up, I'll post them.
Tony Barton
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Join date : 2018-02-13

Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Thu Feb 15, 2018 5:11 pm
I've been mulling over the same problem, and after reading everything I can find, and consulting People Who Know, I've come to no definite conclusion! There is no conclusive evidence either way between SCC2 and KG3 for 1st Army vehicles such as Churchills and Crusaders.
8th Army vehicles coming in from Libya seem to have been largely in Desert Pink and blue-black, if they were new. Older ones still in Light Stone or Portland Stone. I think there's evidence that Light Mud started being used right at the end of the Tunisian business, after the fighting stopped, presumably before they went to Sicily.
But the whole subject seems hopelessly indefinite : we just don't know for sure.
NTM
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:15 am
Thanks for the replies pretty much as expected and quite reassuring in a way.
Dragon seem to have plumped for SCC2 for their NIH Churchill kit. I'll go with that on mine and perhaps have a rethink when I get round to the Crusaders and Valentines. Will also have to procure the relevant Mike Starmer volume at some point.

deephorse
Posts : 15
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:06 pm
I don’t know whether or not this will help, but here’s a paragraph from ‘Warpaint’ vol.2, by Dick Taylor.

“The vehicles belonging to 1st Army that landed in the ‘Torch’ landings and advanced eastwards into Tunisia were not desert camouflaged. They arrived in the normal UK MTP46/4A schemes of SCC2 or G3 bases, with or without disruptive patterning. They were to remain in these schemes until repainted ready for the invasions of Sicily and Italy”.
Silurian
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:05 pm
In the new book "Real Colors of WWII" Mike Starmer also confirms most in a two tone SCC2 brown (and some maybe No. 3 khaki green) with black camo. Most ACs just the brown. Some exceptions noted.
From April, these and 8th Army afvs were repainted light mud with blue-black camo.
NTM
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:10 am
Now I just need to decide which paint to use for SCC2 my last attempts were a bit too much of a teddy brown.
Tony Barton
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:02 pm
The best I have yet found, an almost perfect match for Starmer's own paint chip ( it's in his books) is the MIG version :  A MIG-111 , Service Drab SCC2.
Acrylic in the usual dropper bottle.

NTM
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:45 pm
Thanks Tony. I'll try to pick up a bottle at Cavalier tomorrow. I know Starmer has recommended Vallejo 826 as a close match too.
NTM
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:24 pm
Had no joy with this at Cavalier couldn't even get a bottle of Vallejo 826. While searching for an online retailer I did stumble across a review of the MIG offering by Mike where he said it was no good! Got a game store opening up close to me so I'll see what they can offer. Need to paint the Crusaders I picked up.
Tony Barton
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:07 pm
Well, I'm sorry to hear he doesn't like it , since it's pretty well bang on with his own chip . Not sure what he finds wrong about it. Some of the other Mig, DOA and AK colours are miles off ( I've tried them all ) but that one seemed very acceptable.
NTM
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:34 pm
"SCC.2 brown. Far too light not red or ginger enough. Too dark for SCC.4 as well."

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47208/thread/1419537875/MIG+British+WW+2+colours

Dates from 2014 so the formulation may have changed since I suppose.
Colonel White
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:55 am
Another thing to take into account is scaling down. As a railway modeller this has been a pain as often the BR blue for example has been offered to dark even though it was matched to a paint chip. Therein lies a problem here IMO. Real paint chips don't always scale down  and can look "wrong" on a model. The best way to overcome this is with your own eye. Tony's example above looks fine to me and I would be perfectly happy with that scheme regardless of what an author of a book says. Weathering is another factor that needs to be taken into account as the sun will have a natural bleaching affect on colours . Again going back to the railway example, the yellow on Sante Fe locomotives often turned white due to the desert sun  .Mud and grime can have the opposite effect and make colours look darker.
Tony Barton
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

on Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:34 am
Exactly so, the "scale distance effect" .
All colours appear lighter the further away they are, so since a small model is effectively seen at a distance, you can lighten the shade a little. That can be a tricky thing to do, since adding white is not always the answer. For the Khaki/green colours, a yellow Ochre is better.As well as often adding a dab of ochre or khaki to the paint, I always add a lot of dust to my tanks, done as washes of very pale ochres, and that creates a similar effect.
If I can muster the effort, I suppose I might write a little piece on my own interpretation of British tank colours. We certainly have a great deal more evidence now, and lots of paints suddenly, but some of them are not accurate at all, and need some discrimination in use. Since this is a unhealthy obsession of mine, I might as well pass on what I have found out.
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Re: British tanks in Tunisia

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