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El Cid
Posts : 52
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T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:37 am
Maybe I'm just to dumb to find:

how can I play the T27 Xylophone rocket launcher on truck ?

It should be like the Calliope (same rockets ?), but with a diiferent transport/mount .......
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Gunbird
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:31 am
It would, at best, be a offtable asset.
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El Cid
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:50 pm
Offtable assett is O.K., but the model is very pretty, so I'd like to have it on the tabletop, if possible.

I tried to calculate points costs and BR, taking the Calliope as a starter.
My educated guess would be 48 pts (36 for the rockets and 12 for the heavy GMC as mount/transport plus the pintle-mouted MMG) and a BR of 2-r (Sherman Calliope has 3-r, but also a gun and MG's and costs 86 pts.).
Procedure as with the other 4.5" rocket launchers.
NTM
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:07 pm
I'd probably just use Katyusha stats.
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El Cid
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:30 pm
that's a good idea as well

but I think the Calliope stats fit better, cause it's the same type of rocket, i.e. M8 (I don't know which type the Katyusha rockets are, for comparison)
JayM
Posts : 36
Join date : 2018-03-10

Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:53 am
El Cid wrote:Offtable assett is O.K., but the model is very pretty, so I'd like to have it on the tabletop, if possible.

A friend and I have a method to deal with artillery that would be silly on the table for a game at BG level - just have a side table where you deploy the models needed. In game terms they are off-table artillery, but the models are there for viewing pleasure.
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El Cid
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:05 am
another good idea, JayM, and I've already played that way

but you don't always have the space for another table in the gaming area, especially during Shows in confined places

that brings me back to my original post ......
JayM
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:01 am
The calliope was a 60 rocket launcher, while the Xylophone was 8(?). I've not used rockets in the game yet, and don't have the stats handy, so I don't know if the number of launch tubes has any impact on the stats. If so, the Calliope stats would need to be reduced. As far as the vehicle platform goes, I suppose any Deuce and a half stats would do.
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El Cid
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:21 am
If we rely on Wikipedia, which we should, then the rockets are the same:

Wikipedia wrote:The Rocket Launcher T34 (Calliope) was a tank-mounted multiple rocket launcher used by the United States Army during World War II. The launcher was placed atop the M4 Sherman, with its prominent vertical side frames firmly anchored to the turret's sides, and fired a barrage of 4.5 in (114 mm) M8 rockets from 60 launch tubes. It was developed in 1943; small numbers were produced and were used by various US armor units in 1944–45. It adopts its name from the musical instrument "Calliope", also known as the steam organ, which had similar parallel or clustered pipes, and which had historically existed on steamboats of the Mississippi River in the United States, or as is more commonly known and associated with traditional "circus music".

Operational service showed some drawbacks in the M8's performance; ground launch resulted in the rockets' fin stabilizers proving ineffective,[9] reducing the accuracy of the rocket; despite this, it was considered an effective barrage weapon.[10] Due to the lack of accuracy, when ground-launched, it was being launched from large multiple launchers; the most commonly used being eight- and 60-tube launchers, called "xylophones" and "calliopes" respectively.[3][6] The officially-named U.S. Army T34 Calliope launch system was mounted on top of a M4 Sherman tank; once fired, the launcher could be detached and discarded, allowing the tank to be used in conventional combat, while the "xylophone", officially the T27, was carried on a 2½-ton truck's cargo bed.[
JayM
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:44 pm
Yes, but there's considerble difference between volleying 60 of them and 8. That's why I said I don't know how the stats would compare, since firing a volley of rockets is a bit different than a "5 rounds rapid" artillery shoot. The stat card for the Calliope says ammo of 3 for the rockets, which I have to assume means 20 rockets per "ammo point" since they have 60 of them loaded up, and there isn't exactly any room to carry a reload on the vehicle. So if a "shot" is 20 rockets, how to figure out how 8 would compare?
Nazrat
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:22 pm
But remember rockets like the Calliope and the Katyusha take an extra turn to reload, so perhaps the Xylophone won't? And instead of 12(?) dice it might just roll two or three?

Or perhaps just don't use it because it WAS so rare and isn't in the rules? Laughing
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El Cid
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:30 pm
Pictures show 2 rocket-racks on a GMC, i.e. 16 rockets in a salvo, with the Option to reload.
And the Calliopes, once discharged, was simply cast away and the M4 used in ist conventional role as tank.

So, my maths:
3 shots for the Calliope á 20 rockets = 60 rockets, and no way to reload.
1 salvo for the Xylophone = 16 shots and the possibilty to reload, and to compare it it should have 4 "salvos" or 4 "ammo".

That should be about the same value.

But ..... maybe I'm just wrong


the T27 was used during the battle of the Bulge, with very different outcome, but it was used
it was not so rare, one may think, from all the written sources

the Calliope also wasn't used that often, but it's in the lists

but, again ..... maybe I'm just wrong
JayM
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:48 pm
OK. I finally pulled my rulebook off the shelf and brushed up on the MRL rules. Each "gun" gets six dice per "ammo" expended instead of the 2 dice per gun of a regular artillery piece. I didn't read far enough to see if the rules distinguish between a large number of rails (like the Katy or Calliope) over a smaller number like the various Nebelwerfers. That aside, I think you're right - the Calliope is 3 shots then it's just a tank, so if each "shot" is 20 rockets and 6 dice, I would say a single Xylophone (that was the launch rail set, not the mounted launcher) would be 3 dice per launcher, so the Deuce with the two launcher sets would get six dice, but only one "shot" unless it has an ammo vehicle. I'll let you figure out how many shots the ammo truck can carry.
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El Cid
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:48 am
There's a very good book I found:

https://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/135840/Riper_-_Rockets_and_missiles_-_the_life_story_of_a_technology.pdf

The U.S. Army experimented along similar lines, producing a variety
of vehicle-mounted launchers. The first to enter service was the T27 Xylophone,
named for the side-by-side arrangement of its eight launching tubes. Variations on the theme included the T27-E2 (a twenty-four-tube
successor to Xylophone), the T44 (a 120-tube launcher fitted to amphibious
trucks like the DUKW), and the T45 (a fourteen-tube launcher for
mounting on jeeps). The most innovative launcher in the U.S. Army inventory
was the T34 Calliope: a sixty-tube launcher mounted, in a wooden
frame, on the turret of a Sherman tank. Calliope had two significant advantages
over truck-mounted systems. First, because the launcher turned
with the turret and raised or lowered with the tank’s main gun, it could be
aimed quickly and easily. Second, compared to trucks and jeeps, tanks were
better equipped to withstand enemy counterattacks and fight on their own
once their rockets had been fired. Calliope-equipped Shermans were, in
theory, capable of jettisoning their launchers in a matter of moments and
becoming ordinary tanks again. Until the last months of the war, all U.S.
Army rocket launchers fired the standard M8 4.5-inch rocket: short-ranged
and highly inaccurate, but effective as a barrage weapon.
The Army’s attitude toward multiple-rocket launchers was ambivalent
at best. On one hand, the launchers were deployed in both the European
and Pacific theaters, and at least one complete artillery battalion was
equipped with them. They were used in combat from June 1944 onward,
but nearly all multiple-rocket launchers carried official designations beginning
with T (for “test”)—a sign that they were regarded only as a temporary
experiment.

There's much more to read, and a section about the pacific war, and so on.

JayM
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:14 am
By the way, if you ever build a model of Morser Karl I'm not going to help you find stats for it... Laughing Laughing
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El Cid
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:47 am
Come on ......
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sjb1001
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:24 pm
I have a model of Dora - Warwick seems a tad indifferent to stat requests......
JayM
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

on Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:35 am
Laughing
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Re: T27 Xylophone rocket launcher

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