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El Cid
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Age : 60
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Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sat May 12, 2018 3:50 pm
I want to build a Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup of 1939.

My problems:

a) there is no Option for a FHQ in a Tank/Tankette.
Maybe one could add the costs of a Tankette (MG) = 10 Pts., or of a Tankette (2cm) = 12 Pts., or of any other Tank,  to the points of the FHQ.
Would that be correct with the rules ?

b) there are no officers in each one of the Tank/Tankette Units, and that is historically not correct.
The only officer I can get (beside the FHQ) is from the Recce Command Unit, and that's an AC.
How can this Problem be solved, also in Points-costs ?

Help appreciatet
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wolflord
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sat May 12, 2018 4:09 pm
a) As BG is mainly a historically game, adding the cost of a tank to your FWHQ in order to mount it on one is ok.

b) This could be deliberate, reflecting poor performance of the officerers. Italian and Russian in Kursk tank platoons also have no officers.


Greetings
Wolflord
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Piers
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sat May 12, 2018 6:51 pm
You don't get lots of 'Officers' in a Polish force as their command and control wasn't that good like most early war forces. It reflects an armies communication and flexibility. Less flexible, less initiative - less officers.

The officer ability merely gives an order bonus, not reflect a real officer on the ground.
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El Cid
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sun May 13, 2018 10:47 am
I know that the officer is merely an order Bonus, and that Poland has very few officers, but in playing a tank-only force you just have 1 FHQ und the Recce command.
That can't be correct.


Wolflord wrote: reflecting poor performance of the officers

then the Germans should have lesser tank officers in early Blitzkrieg, reflecting Mokra and the like, just to be fair Wink
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Piers
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sun May 13, 2018 7:50 pm
It's not right.

You can't play a tank only force in Battlegroup unless in Battlegroup Tobruk. Can't moan about historical accuracy and then want to only field tanks...

Take a look at the force requirements, you have to take some infantry.
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El Cid
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sun May 13, 2018 8:29 pm
I just want to show you the following diagramms:

http://wp39.struktury.net/samodzielna-kompania-czolgow-lekkich-v-1939.html

its a Vickers Light Tank Platoon, as to be seen on page 24 of Blitzkrieg book.

2 times the Tank Unit = 190 Points
FHQ in Vickers Tank as platoon commander = 43 Point (incl. the 20 Points for the Tank-add-on for the commander)
a total of 233 Points,
and I should be able to play it, as I should be able to stage a part of a bigger action or battle
and now I'm missing the other officers in each section, giving me the orders-add-on of +1 for each one on dicing for orders
so: 1D6 + 1 (Commander) + 2 (section officers) / or +1 for the sic of the unit

is historically correct

more sources:

http://wp39.struktury.net/batalion-czolgow-lekkich-7tp-kompania-czolgow-1939.html

http://wp39.struktury.net/kompania-czolgow-lekkich-wolnobieznych-renault-1938.html

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samodzielna_kompania_czo%C5%82g%C3%B3w_rozpoznawczych

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/62_Samodzielna_Kompania_Czo%C5%82g%C3%B3w_Rozpoznawczych

http://www.lodz-eksploracja.org/forum/thread-1784.html

http://derela.republika.pl/formacje.htm

I don' want to change the really wonderful rules, I just like to have a little bit more possibilities for playing with the Polish Battlegroup on small Levels (< 350 points)
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Greebs
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sun May 13, 2018 9:22 pm
Try drawing up an infantry list, and see if your orders go any further, even with the single additional order from the Platoon leader.

Part of the way the rules represent poor command, control and co-ordination is to give you plenty of units, but nowhere near enough orders to use them all simultaneously.

The Polish are in no way special in this.

You've already decided to ignore the force organisation aspect of the rules, you've also decided to ignore the fact you cannot put your Forward HQ in a tank. Since you've already decided to stuff the rules as written because you want to spam tanks in an army that straight up didn't have many, why not make everyone a frigging officer and have done with it?
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Piers
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Sun May 13, 2018 11:21 pm
Oh well, if you don't want to change the rules that's good.

Neither do I. Smile

I like my Polish list as it is. Given their lack of tanks, an army should focus on Infantry as it's strong arm.

Of course, what you do in your own home between consenting adults is up to you! Wink
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Powermonger
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Mon May 14, 2018 12:14 am
Piers Polish are rock hard to dislodge!!
Enjoy playing the polish infantry.
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El Cid
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Mon May 14, 2018 5:31 am
I'm already playing with a Polish army, a Pulk Kawalerii.

FHQ (mounted) + Goniec (motorbike) + wire team mounted

Full Platoon Kawalerii ( HQ + 3 troops, all mounted + dismounted)
extra Kawalerii troop (Warsaw police squad, in marine-blue uniforms, all mounted)

platoon support:
LMG-troop mounted (+ dismounted)
AT-gun + extra loader-team + Troika-tow
Tankette

2 Forward Observers (mounted)
2 Horse-artillery guns (02/26 ones) + extra loader-teams + 6-horse-tows

up to five Recce units (wz.34, snipers, Tankette 20mm)


so - I'm used to working with an "infantry" army  Wink

what I wanted to try is playing with a tank platoon on its own, which is possible to do in other rulesets I already played
but since Battlegroup is THE ruleset for me ................. well, I tried to have another (official, or at last semi-official) list/possibility/etc pp.
of couse I can twist the rules and lists, but that's not what I'm intending, believe it or not

I also would like to have rules for using one of the famous Polish trains Very Happy
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Piers
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Mon May 14, 2018 7:47 am
Yes... I must do some train rules...
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El Cid
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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

on Mon May 14, 2018 8:50 am
Piers wrote:Yes... I must do some train rules...

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Re: Polish Tank/Tankette Battlegroup

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