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Pumba
Posts : 8
Join date : 2018-04-29

Marder Platoons

on Mon Apr 30, 2018 4:41 am
G'day!

I was not sure whether I should post this kind of question here, or rather in the Rules Questions section, but after all I figured it fits here better.

I love me some Marders on the table, but taking single ones can after a while become tedious. Would it be historically accurate and not game-breaking to field platoons of Marder SPGs? From what I understand, they operated in PanzerJager Abteilungen, in companies comprised of the same type of vehicles along sister companies of 'regular' towed AT guns and other tank destroyers (sometimes I read StuGs, sometimes heavier TDs - I am not sure here). In this case, would fielding a 3-Marder platoon be reasonable, both historically and in game terms?

To phrase the question in a more direct manner;
A platoon of 3 Marder III Hs, with one acting as an Officer (and thus also a Mortar spotter), costing, let's say, 90 points - is that a platoon reflecting how they operated historically and not game-breaking? Or perhaps drop one Marder for a, let's say, 3man command in a Kubelwagen, along two Marders, or even drop the Officer entirely, for a discounted 3 Vehicle platoon without a command, like Russian T34 platoons? Or buying Marders individually is perfect how it is, and best to abandon the idea?

What do you guys think?
JayM
Posts : 31
Join date : 2018-03-10

Re: Marder Platoons

on Mon Apr 30, 2018 7:13 am
I think the consensus from Battlegroup players and the designers, as I've read it, is simple: do what suits you and any opponents you have.

I tend to favour historical organisations, using whatever references I have or what I can find on-line. If necessary I'll do point costing as an aid for game balance, and bring units down from full strength as required to achieve that. So, yes, I'd field a Marder platoon if the scenario called for it. That said, it does depend on the scale you wish to play. With squad and platoon level games I'm more inclined to go with penny packets or singles of support weapons. At company level it's more likely whole platoons of support stuff would be attached.

Pumba
Posts : 8
Join date : 2018-04-29

Re: Marder Platoons

on Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:08 pm
Awesome, thank you for your input! And I wholeheartedly agree with your view on it, it's just...

...What is the reason then, that the authors did not put the option to purchase Marder platoons (or batteries?) into the books in the first place? Perhaps there's a reason I'm missing, that's why I'm asking.

Also a second part of the question is, if allowed, what would that Marder platoon look like.

Would it be a battery of two Marders, just like SU-85s in FotR Soviets?
Or a battery of 3 like a platoon of T34s in Kursk/Fotr Soviets?
Maybe a battery of 3, with one acting as an Officer, just like a plethora of tank platoons in the game?
Or rather 2 Marders with a Command team sitting in a different vehicle (Kubelwagen comes to mind)?

I do realise I can field any of those if the opponent agrees beforehand, but I'm after what is the most historically accurate composition and what do the authors think in that regard.

Cheers!
JayM
Posts : 31
Join date : 2018-03-10

Re: Marder Platoons

on Tue May 01, 2018 6:50 am
I can't speak for the designer's reasons, maybe he'll answer. However, fielding some support like artillery in historical organizations would be out of whack for a squad/platoon game, and even unusual for most comany level games.

As for what the Marder platoon would look like, I'm not sure. I don't have any German organisations with Marders.
deephorse
Posts : 15
Join date : 2018-02-13

Re: Marder Platoons

on Tue May 01, 2018 11:52 pm
I have the Nuts & Bolts book on the Marder II, SdKfz 131. The organisation and authorised strength of a Panzerjager Kompanie equipped with this Marder was determined by K.St.N. 1148. 1148 varied over time so you will need to decide when in time your scenario is set. Even then different versions of 1148 could be in operation with different units at the same time! 1148d as of 01.11.1943 authorised four Marder II per platoon, along with a motorcycle combination, a VW Kubel and two 2-ton Maultiers.
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wolflord
Posts : 195
Join date : 2018-02-14
Location : Cologne

Re: Marder Platoons

on Tue May 01, 2018 11:58 pm
As deephorse already said, the exact organisation of a Marder platoon depends on the time. The KSTN 1148 from November 1943 can be seen in detail here:

http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/kstn/kstn1148d1nov43.htm


Greetings
Wolflord
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RayH
Posts : 38
Join date : 2018-02-13
Location : Enniskillen

Re: Marder Platoons

on Wed May 02, 2018 12:31 am
I only have two,which I love. The deadly duo Very Happy
nickdives
Posts : 79
Join date : 2018-02-13

Re: Marder Platoons

on Wed May 02, 2018 1:02 am
I have just used historical formations, ignored the points but used the BR points for scenarios. For an evening game I would stick more to the books.
Pumba
Posts : 8
Join date : 2018-04-29

Re: Marder Platoons

on Wed May 02, 2018 3:19 am
deephorse wrote:The organisation and authorised strength of a Panzerjager Kompanie equipped with this Marder was determined by K.St.N. 1148.  1148 varied over time so you will need to decide when in time your scenario is set.

We play mainly Overlord, with plans for FotR, so I'd say June '44 to the end of the war, on the Western Front.
deephorse
Posts : 15
Join date : 2018-02-13

Re: Marder Platoons

on Wed May 02, 2018 9:57 pm
Pumba wrote:

We play mainly Overlord, with plans for FotR, so I'd say June '44 to the end of the war, on the Western Front.

Are you portraying a particular division in your force or just a generic one?  The Panzerjager formations in Normandy varied somewhat.  In addition I’m not sure how many Marders would still be around in 1945.  Perhaps someone could enlighten us on that subject?
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The Waxed Moustache
Posts : 17
Join date : 2018-02-23

Re: Marder Platoons

on Fri May 04, 2018 6:27 pm
deephorse wrote: In addition I’m not sure how many Marders would still be around in 1945.  Perhaps someone could enlighten us on that subject?

At a guess, almost anything goes. I've seen pictures of some KO'd in Lorraine, September-October 1944, and this is a Marder II in Hungary, March 45: https://www.flickr.com/photos/kruegerrossi/11999674815/in/photostream/lightbox/ .

FOTR includes them as unrestricted.
deephorse
Posts : 15
Join date : 2018-02-13

Re: Marder Platoons

on Sat May 05, 2018 1:33 pm
Seems that I had some of the answer all the time. Returning to Nuts & Bolts 31, it says that there was a grand total of 89 Marder II in service on all fronts as of 30.12.1944, falling to 51 at 15.03.1945.
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Re: Marder Platoons

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