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Herodotus450bc
Posts : 11
Join date : 2018-03-30
Age : 44
Location : Sunny Strabane

Winter/Continuation/Lap war Finnish ?

on Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Going to pick up this book ,but there are a few things I`d like to ask.And don`t take any of this as a pop at the rules. Finland is a bit of a side show during WWII and the book has enough to cover as is. I`l tinker away with them myself until I get it feeling right. The book is battlegroup barbarossa not battlegroup Finland 1939-1945 after all lol.

Is the Finnish list a generic list you can shuffle back and forth along the timeline.Or is it aimed at the Continuation War 25 Jun 1941ish ?
Too many books focus purely on the Winter War ignoring the rest of WWII and the development of the Finnish army/air-force over time .

Is there any suggested rules for 1944 Finnish arty/mortars? I understand a lot of elements of WWII get over hyped. But the Finnish ability to bring a lot of arty to bare in a relatively small area did a lot to bolster the front-line in June 44. Their mortar fire was also pretty good at picking out targets.
A lot of which is down to having the whole area ranged during the lull in the war.

I will be picking the book up this weekend like.But just figured I`d ask .It`s not a big deal either way as I will tinker with it .
Anybody else play Finns or have house rules let me know. I`m always open to suggestions and seeing other peoples stuff .

Thanks and hope everybody had a great day at salute .
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Greebs
Posts : 53
Join date : 2018-02-12

Re: Winter/Continuation/Lap war Finnish ?

on Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:33 pm
By my understanding of Finnish infantry during the war, the Barbie list is specific to the post-Winter-War organisation. It's good for... well, the period the book covers, as the whole front sort of went quiet after that first rush, as the Finns stop, and the Russians had the whole German Invasion thing to deal with.

There are things missing for when everything goes nuts in '43 and never really stops (StuGs, Captured T34s, BT-42s, Panzerfausts...) and so far as I recall, the Winter War infantry Platoon was built around larger squads split into fireteams.

I'd be leery about going too crazy with special rules, it's not really how the system do, but if you want to add a little spice to represent a notable aspect of a countries doctrine, try working with established mechanics - American combat doctrine was heavily dependent on their artillery, and that gets represented by little more than giving Arty Spotter to all officers (instead of just Mortar Spotter), and the addition of the Time-on-Target upgrade to barrages. Maybe Give them easier access to Registered Target points (in a similar vein to the Barbie Russians getting freer access to timed strikes), or give the FHQ Arty Spotter+ instead of just Arty Spotter?

I'd love to do Finns some day, but as a 20mm gamer and a figure snob, the minis just aren't there to get me to commit!
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Herodotus450bc
Posts : 11
Join date : 2018-03-30
Age : 44
Location : Sunny Strabane

Re: Winter/Continuation/Lap war Finnish ?

on Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:23 pm
Good stuff. I can push it back and forth along the timeline if it`s June 41.

Don`t worry I have no plans to totally rewrite the book lol .
Was thinking of giving on table mortars the dive bomber rule, letting you re roll one of your arty effect dice. But only if you buy the loader team for the mortar. Many hands making light work as it were. And less strain on the guys actually sighting and firing the mortar, freeing them up to do their job properly. I may extend this to light HE on table field guns we`ll see...
I think that would give you a chance at getting something out of even the worst dice. But with hits needing a 6 and pinning on a 2-5, it`s going to result in an extra pin result a lot of the time. Messing with the spotter round is too much I think . If a spotter rounds ends up missing wildly into my own units and being called off. I will just put that down to ammo/coms issues Wink

You`re right the Finnish platoons are reformed after the winter war . As for modeling the Finnish infantry I`m going 1/72 plastic and using a mix of early German & Soviet infantry to make up my units. Their kit like almost the entire army is a real miss match of stuff even within platoons. Here I will post a link to some Finnish footage.and link to a very good site on the Finnish army and its make up during WWII. Had a site listing all the stugs and their records. Will look it up again later as their is some great info on there.
JAEGER PLATOON:

FINNISH ARMY 1918 - 1945 WEBSITE
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/MAIN.html

Finnish Defence Forces WWII Journal


They manage to capture massive amounts of red army material, sadly a lot of it isn't really top end gear. But there are two T-28 among the many T-26`S and two KV-1 captured in  summer 41.
Vehicles of Heavy Tank Platoon of Tank Battalion 1st of September 1941:

   2 x T-28 tank
   3 x BT-5 tank
   2 x BT-7 tank
   4 trucks (maintenance truck, ammunition truck, fuel truck and supplies truck)
   1 passenger car

Starting in autumn of 1942 the Finnish converted BT-7 tanks in to BT-42 assault guns. These didn't fair well in June 1944, mainly due to them being forced into an anti tank role they were never intended for. They were meant as infantry support tanks and had to face down T34`s with mostly HE rounds so...


Even the German units fighting along side the Fins have a whole range of hand me down tanks .And the Finnish tank units did get some panzer 4 J`s (13-18 roughly) , but they weren't impressed by it . The panzer 4 J they got was a made for export version with some cut backs having been made. And called the bone shaker or some such by the crews, because of the cheap suspension set up on that version. Great on the rolling expanse of the eastern front, not so hot trundling about in the frosts of Finland  lol
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Owain30
Posts : 14
Join date : 2018-04-18

Re: Winter/Continuation/Lap war Finnish ?

on Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:49 pm
I literally came into this section to start this topic and ask about how people have or if they have tried updating the Finish list to 1944.

I'm thinking to allow them to buy Stugs platoons or just individual stugs...?

I've yet to find how many captured t-34 76/85s the Fins had (defiently had them I've seen Pictures). What I did find was that they had 2 ISU152's one was used as a recovery vehicle and the other sent to the front So what every the cost of a ISU152 from FoTR +unique.

Infanty would have acsess to Fausts and shreks

Pak40s available

The BT-42: (Tank)
Armour: N/O/O
Gun: HE 2,2,2,2,2, 4/4+
Speed 12/16 (33 mph)
20pts BR 2i

Landsverk Anti II AA-tank (special)
Armour M/O/O
Gun 40mm bofor AP 3/3/2/1/1 HE 1
Speed 8/12
Cost: ?/2i (undecided on this one)

Any thoughts, Opinions?

Thanks!
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Greebs
Posts : 53
Join date : 2018-02-12

Re: Winter/Continuation/Lap war Finnish ?

on Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:05 am
As I recall, the 'recovery' ISU was used post-war, and the functioning 152 only lasted 3 days or so?

Also there were seven T34, plus an additional seven 34-85s captured and taken on quite early in the Summer of '44.

Curiously, the total number of captured T-28 taken into service is Also apparently seven...

There were two Kv-1 as well.

Source:
https://www.jaegerplatoon.net/TANKS6.htm
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Re: Winter/Continuation/Lap war Finnish ?

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