Russian 76mm gun - field gun or AT

Page 157 lets me buy 2 field guns for 55 points, or page 162 buy it as an AT gun individually. In the narrative section it says how it had a dual role, but in game terms am I buying anything different (ie ammo maybe). And as an artillery piece, can it fire indirect with an observer?

Thanks

I'll give it a go. If you buy the Zis-3 as a Artillery battery it is set up for....artillery. Staked out, stocked up with HE, a bit of smoke and a bit of AP. Also, not likely to be very near to the frontline though as it has a 13.3km Indirect HE range. And yes, can fire indirectly if you use the observer. Though, being Russian....

The AT gun is set up as a .... AT gun. Different method of deployment, more dug in to basically being level with the earth so as little of the gun and crew is visible. And then camouflage it. Stocked up with AT ammo, and some HE.

Zis-3 gun training was apparently rather simple, it is not a difficult gun to use, the AT was good, and HE was ok-ish. Wasn't able to find anything about artillerymen being trained in AT use....I assume they do, if just a bit, but I reckon a team that is set up as a AT gun will be better at it compared to a team that is very efficient at the artillery use.

Hope that is of some use to you.

Thanks Gunbird. The artillery choice is an on-table battery of two. So in this instance not miles from the battlefield. So I am not 100% convinced. I can hear the rationale, but points wise it has something of a “company of tanks” discount. The standard AT option doesn’t come with any defences either, so I think, whilst the picture you draw is evocative, I am not sure game wise.

But thanks for your thoughts. I hope Warwick or Piers will give something official on this. I am happy to house rule it, but always nice to see what the designer’s thoughts were

It's just two guns as a battery...


That is handy as it lets them fire indirect together when bought as a battery.

Not sure what else you need... the single gun is the same gun just as a platoon support option.

That's all the answer I was looking for. I had "bought" them to use in the standard dual role, and my mate queried it, so I wanted to make sure everything was legal

Thanks

Use them in whichever role you like, I use my Zis3 battery in an AT role all the time, benefits of a dual purpose gun...

Ok, extending this question. In the game, I purchased them to be used in the Russian defences option "AT emplacement", and they were separated. Should we have kept them together as a battery, or was it ok to split them.

The Russian player occasionally used them for indirect fire with a spotter - I had no issues with that, but I was slightly concerned that they were split up on the table. Any views please?

Also, one was behind a wood so didn't have direct LoS to an enemy unit. The player wanted to use indirect, but I ruled that LoS still applied. His argument was that indirect fire ignores LoS (except for the spotter). I ruled in favour of common sense and said that this would apply for off table, but on-table it would be plain silly for LoS to only apply to direct fire - after all, the ZiS3 isn't a high angle weapon like a mortar.

There is nothing in the rulest hat prevents the splitting of a batttery. But in my gaming group we decided to keep a battery together for a combined bombardment.

When firing indirect only the LOS of the spotter is necessary. But in our gaming group a gun or mortar has to keep a certain distance from woods or houses if it want to fire over it.

And following up on that. The defenses were purchased as part of the army, and teh guns then slotted into them. DO such defenses limit arc of fire, and if teh guns move out of them are the bonuses lost (like some other defense works?)

Marc,

Can't really find a specific answer in the new rule book. It does say on pf 22 & 23, it says infantry units and teams have a 360 degree arc and guns has a 90 degree arc of fire to the front. For me, I'd restrict that to MGs deployed in a bunker or dug out would have a 18 degree arc to the front, and would have to move out to gain more arc. For an AT gun dug-out, I'd let the gun pivot within the dug-out (inside a 180 degree arc). So gun could pivot and fire under a maneuver order.

Mike

After a long hard think and looking at my bunker collection, and real life examples....

MG in dugout or bunker - 180 to the front due to multiple openings. Yes, even in a foxhole, as you tend to add a bit of cover between you and the enemy.
Gun in dugout or bunker - 90 degrees to the front. Guns tend to be too big to have multiple openings and you have have a fire lane to work over.

For me personally I only let guns pivot up to Hard cover....lower cover all round and no top cover. But this is my personal interpretation.

Sounds absolutly reasonable.

Yes---that sounds reasonable.

Good Afternoon All,
I have two questions that make me confused , could You be so kind and help me ?
- with Rifle platoon I can buy field gun : 76.2mm and is it :  L16, L26, L30, L42 or L54 ? It is somewhere defined as default <i can't see> or maybe I can chose one I want ?  
  Same situation with supporting fire with 152mm is it :L24 or L29
- how about supply column : it is for real "column" and i can buy multiple wagons or just one ?

Apologize if someone ask the same in different subject ...

And what is more important : my first post, my first historical game <and probably the best one > and Greetings from Wrocław Poland !

Cześć! Welcome to the forum. The group is full of people who are very helpful and knowledgeable!

In the Kursk book, I don't see an option for a 76mm field gun? It has the option for a 76mm infantry gun, which is the 76mm/L16. The Zis 3 is the 76mm/L54, but you have to buy that as Specialist/Support unit. The other guns listed are for the various tanks they were used in, I think.

For the Supply Column, you get 1 Wagon. You have the Option to get 2 more (for 4 points each). It doesn't say Unique, so you can buy as many as you like.

Mike

Ok, so basically it seems that my historical knowledge will rise due to that game
Thank You very much !