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Keithandor
Posts : 22
Join date : 2018-03-18

Firing an on table mortar.

on Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:39 am
So I want to see nclude a mortar on both sides of my first game coming up .

To Fire I must have a spotter and two Order and the mortar and spotter must not be pinned.
Then I follow the procedure.

1- 3+ to make radio contact with the mortar.
2- place spotting round and roll for deviation
3- if I'm happy with the location then call for fire.
4- use an Order to open fire with the mortar.
5- the single mortar fires 2 shots ? I roll to see what happens with each shot? So I roll 2 dice in the barrage accuracy table , sixes are hits and resolved first , then pins? Exapanding outwards from the spot I hit.
6- if I hit I refer to the HE output from the weapon. Eg 4/4+

Am I getting close?


ColonelBob
Posts : 16
Join date : 2018-02-15
Age : 58
Location : Luxembourg

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 am
I think you've got it right.
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Piers
Posts : 275
Join date : 2018-02-12
http://battlegroupwargame.forumotion.com

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:55 am
Yep pretty much.

Artillery Procedure photo guide in the Facebook group albums if needed.
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Warwick
Posts : 101
Join date : 2018-02-12
Location : Derby, UK

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:56 am
Yep, you have it. 2 orders used for the spotter then the mortar. If it was a battery, then extra orders for the extra shots.
Keithandor
Posts : 22
Join date : 2018-03-18

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:00 am
OK , so do you think a mortar is worth having in a squad level (350) point game , as it' soaks up some orders ?
Maybe we will jump in and play a 500 point game ?
talagarz
Posts : 5
Join date : 2018-02-13

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:26 am
I was just wondering if 5. shouldn't contain 'distribute hits' before resolving hits, in case of 1 mortar it's not important of course as both hits are on the same target, but with multiple guns/mortars firing
Strider62
Posts : 3
Join date : 2018-06-07

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:28 pm
I realize this is an old thread, and I’m new to the BG rules, but this question about on-table mortar fire is one that comes up in every set of rules I’ve ever played. I’m not presuming to argue the BG rules, but since this is a pet peeve of mine I’d just like to weigh in with some personal experience and some actual honest-to-god field knowledge. I’m an old Special Forces soldier and I was trained and experienced in the emplyment of mortars - 60mm, 81mm and 4.2”. I can tell you that any mortar can be fired “direct lay” at any target on which the gunner can lay his sight. Yes, mortars have sights. You place the crosshair on the target, estimate range, cut your charge appropriately for the range, and launch rounds on target. If you’re good at estimating range, then you have a very, very good chance of hitting the target with your first round. No need for spotters and radios - those are only necessary for “indirect lay”, i.e. when line of sight between the mortar and the target is obstructed or the distance is to great to see. Of course, the downside is that if you can see the target the target can see you, and mortars taken under direct fire by the enemy are likely going to be in a world of hurt. So, I guess my point is that while I wouldn’t encourage anyone to PLAN to use their mortars direct-lay, if your comms are down and /or you’re short on orders you ought to be a able to use a mortar to fire diectly (“aimed fire”) at a target if you think it’s worth exposing the mortar to return fire.
Tau1850
Posts : 65
Join date : 2018-06-12

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:49 pm
I have thought the same thing, a lot of games do this. I was planning on talking to my group to allow for this. I am thinking of having it be just like a normal shooting. Roll to spot, roll to hit. No deviation and no 10" radius.
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wolflord
Posts : 204
Join date : 2018-02-14
Location : Cologne

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:43 pm
Another rulesystem allowed in their 3rd version direkt fire for light and medium mortars. It was the same mechanism any other direct fire, the only differnce was a minimum distance to the target, as you are still lobbing grenades in a nice high arc.
dead1
Posts : 65
Join date : 2018-02-13

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:38 am
The 50mm-60mm mortars in BG are "direct fire" only (I guess this assumes they're generally not involved in artillery bombardments but instead to provide localised support to the platoon plus a 50mm - 60mm shell isn't exactly big enough to muster the power to affect the 10 inch radius that bigger pieces do) . Anything bigger is indirect only - probably to keep things simple. Plus the game promotes off board artillery so on board mortars should be rare (though I do use an Sd.Kfz 251/2 every now and then as I have the model - I doubt you could use that one in direct fire ala some bizarre self propelled assault gun but I could be wrong).

I hate my brother's 60mm Airborne mortar. That thing lives a charmed life and kills an inordinate amount of troops.
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Piers
Posts : 275
Join date : 2018-02-12
http://battlegroupwargame.forumotion.com

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:02 am
Yes... soldiers now use Direct Lay.

Thing is... in WWII it was different. So while your special forces training may have encouraged it, it wasn't the same in WWII where direct lay was the exception.

Was it done? Yes. It was. Indian 3" Mortar teams in Burma used it consistently to bomb close Japanese positions in the advance.

But you don't make rules to cover exceptions as then they get used out of all proportion to reality and in a manner not typical of the period. Applying modern forces abilities to WWII is incorrect to me.

My Grandfather commander a 3" Mortar Battery across the ETO in 44-45. He never once saw a German that wasn't a POW or dead... Let alone conducted Direct Lay. If he could see his targets, he was in the wrong place.

So I would encourage players to play the rules as written if they want to have games that are typical of the period.
Strider62
Posts : 3
Join date : 2018-06-07

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:18 pm
Thanks Piers. That makes perfect sense, of course, and I’ve always been of the opinion that having medium mortars on the table in a platoon level game or lower is a very odd concept. Fully agree, as I alluded to, that medium mortars being in a position to actually see the target is a very risky proposition. Mortars are way too valuable to put in harms way as a matter of course. I certainly understand the game design aspect you mention; my only rebuttal would be that the first lesson in return fire would mist likely be just just as effective as the “no can do” rule!

Thanks very much for you clarification on the design thought process.
CB

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Kreslack Kross
Posts : 3
Join date : 2019-01-08

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:14 pm
Can mortars of the same caliber 81mm or 120mm join in on a barrage?

ie can a halftrack 81mm and an on foot 81mm that are both on the board join together on a bombardment if you expend the orders for it.

Nazrat
Posts : 54
Join date : 2018-02-12
Age : 58
Location : Charlotte, NC USA
http://jer-toons.com

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

on Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:44 pm
No, they cannot.
Nino Kano
Posts : 20
Join date : 2018-12-01

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

Yesterday at 4:46 am
To go along with what kreslack Kross asked. What about combining mortars or artillery of the same type. For example, I take 2 batteries of 81mm mortars. That's 4 separate units could I call in all 4 with the same spotter. So I would use 5 orders 1 spot, and 4 guns? Because technically they would all be of the same mortar battery. Normally are they not usually a large units section with something like 6 or 8 mortars?

So each time you add a mortars/artillery it's just adding more guns to the section? Kind of like adding additional squad to your platoon?
Nazrat
Posts : 54
Join date : 2018-02-12
Age : 58
Location : Charlotte, NC USA
http://jer-toons.com

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

Yesterday at 6:08 am
No. You buy the exact amount that is and will be in the battery during the game. So if your battery has two tubes in the list that is all it will ever have. There is no combining of separate guns ever. I believe this is mainly a balance issue-- if you could buy four batteries of two and fire them all at once it would pretty much ruin any playability that the game has. Too dang powerful!!
Nino Kano
Posts : 20
Join date : 2018-12-01

Re: Firing an on table mortar.

Yesterday at 3:46 pm
Yeah, good point. It would be brutal.....BUT...but... you basically can already do this with prtp and have all your guns drop on the same locations with no comm rolls and not have to use an order to spot. And this is with all your artillery and mortars.

But having a mortars of the same types, let's say 2x 81mm mortar batteries, needs a spotter, Loss, a comms roll, and enough orders to do it.

It makes logical sense to do this in games of company size or larger because there would be more guns available. He'll the last 1000 point game we played I had 4 prtp. 3xm7 priests, 3x 81mm mortar carriers, 2x 105mm off board, and 2x 2nd Priority Targets. I had a spotter and never used him, took him for the extra order.
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