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RichardC
Posts : 194
Join date : 2018-02-12
Location : Sydney, Australia
https://coldwarhot.blogspot.com.au/

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:43 am
alicks wrote:I have also been looking at the pointing system and have noticed that 3x T80B with no upgrades in the Soviet Armoured list is 15pts more expensive than 3x TOGS Cheiftain in the British Armoured list, how is this the case when the Cheftain has a better gun and more advancements ammo and armour wise? The moral rating on the Cheftain are Veteran compared to the Regular on the T80B?

Also 3x T72A is the same points as 3x Cheiftan TOGS, with the same points raised above, are these not massively over priced compared to the NATO counterparts?

Hi Alex

Thanks for pointing that out. It's pretty hard to balance everything and I've never said that the points were perfect, but each time a mistake is pointed out I'll try and fix them. I felt the Soviet tanks were fairly well pointed in comparison across their range of tanks, but obviously not when compared to some NATO tanks.

You comments have helped me to progress that so right now I've made a new spreadsheet with all the tanks in it for comparison purposes (as you can imagine things have changed quite considerably since my first attempts at that a few years ago). I'll start on a rejig this week.

Richard
sediment
Posts : 94
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Location : Chester, U.K.
https://sedimentswargameblog.blogspot.co.uk/

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:20 pm
During our early games, the T-72 is more than a match for the basic Chieftain, so similar points is about right. If the Chieftains are getting the additional NATO special rules for gunnery then a slight points difference would be in order. As written, tank for tank, the T-72 generally fares better than the Chieftain in our games.

Cheers, Andy
alicks
Posts : 21
Join date : 2018-04-03
Location : UK

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:01 pm
Hi Richard, thanks for the reply.

Another thing i noticed was that in the "RECONNAISSANCE SUPPORT UNITS" section of both the Armoured list and the Motor Battalion list, the Foot patrols and motor foot patrols (BTR and BMP) have the Battle Drill special rule.

Is this an over sight? As they cannot use the drill unless they are in line of sight of a platoon commander, and they do not have one.

Does this need removing? or can they use the battle drill without a platoon commander? or do you need to buy a Recce command for them to use it?

Cheers

Alex
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:11 pm
sediment wrote:During our early games, the T-72 is more than a match for the basic Chieftain, so similar points is about right. If the Chieftains are getting the additional NATO special rules for gunnery then a slight points difference would be in order. As written, tank for tank, the T-72 generally fares better than the Chieftain in our games.

Thanks Andy - good to note you are talking about the base model Chieftain here. Good starting point.

alicks wrote:Another thing i noticed was that in the "RECONNAISSANCE SUPPORT UNITS" section of both the Armoured list and the Motor Battalion list, the Foot patrols and motor foot patrols (BTR and BMP) have the Battle Drill special rule.

Is this an over sight? As they cannot use the drill unless they are in line of sight of a platoon commander, and they do not have one.

Does this need removing? or can they use the battle drill without a platoon commander? or do you need to buy a Recce command for them to use it?

Hi Alex - Yes, please note the list up at the moment certainly pre-dates the new Battle Drill rules and only full platoons get access to the Battle Drill rules. Recon Units - even if you took a Recon Command unit - should not have access to battle Drill. They need to move and act independently.

The lists will be changed after some playtesting if the new rules work well.

Thanks

Richard
alicks
Posts : 21
Join date : 2018-04-03
Location : UK

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:38 am
Hi Richard thanks for the reply, i thought that would be the case.

Sorry to keep bombarding you with questions, however i have also noticed that the 2A28 'Grom' smoothbore on the BMP1 does not have a AT value, despite being able to fire the PG-15V HEAT fixed fin-stabilized rocket-assisted round that as far as i am aware could penetrate 280–350 millimetres (11–14 in) of steel armor.

i think it also got upgraded to the PG-9 which could penetrate up to 400 millimetres (16 in) of steel armor.

Thanks

Alex
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:24 pm
Hi Alex

The AP line is meant for more kinetic energy type rounds, while the HE line for the Grom is meant to represent that HEAT round, which in my understanding was very similar to the HEAT round on the RPG. I'm not 100% happy with the approach and would prefer the round had similar armour penetration to a standard RPG round.

Richard

Gun-Pit Paul
Posts : 53
Join date : 2018-02-19

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:01 am
Hi Rich

RichardC wrote:Hi Gun-Pit Paul

Gun-Pit Paul wrote:Hi Rich

Have noticed in both Tk and MR lists, that to upgrade a platoon of, say, T.80B to T.80BV is exactly the same, +45 points.
Shouldn't the MR list be +60 points (as there are 4, not 3, tanks) in the tank platoon of a MRR?

I'm wondering if you are looking at the latest version of the lists.  I've checked and the T-80B to T-80BV and they are +30 (Tank Div) and +40 (Motor Rifle Div).  However I did look around and see I made a mistake on the T-72 upgrade costs on the MRD list - doing the exact thing you pointed out!  So I'll need to fix that!

Keep up the eagle eye work!

Richard


The older ones, but have just seen the newer ones and will download them.

Paul
Gun-Pit Paul
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:23 am
Hi Rich

Me again!

AGL Sect
1) Have noticed that the AGL Sect in the BTR list does not have a transport BTR in the Plat part, do they travel in the Plat's other BTRs?

2) Why is the AGL Sect (them again!) 2 points more in the 'Spec Sup List' (30) than the BTR list(28)?

Artillery
3) Any reason why you only get 2x 2s3 in a SPA Bty, but 3x 2s1?

4) Why can you get the 2s4 at this level? it's a Front level weapon, not a Btn level one?

Paul
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:27 pm
Hi Paul - Keep it up!

Gun-Pit Paul wrote:AGL Sect
1) Have noticed that the AGL Sect in the BTR list does not have a transport BTR in the Plat part, do they travel in the Plat's other BTRs?

Yes - at the Platoon level all the support options (excluding the Heavy Mortar Team) are expected to squeeze into a Motor Rifle Squad's BTR.

Gun-Pit Paul wrote:2) Why is the AGL Sect (them again!) 2 points more in the 'Spec Sup List' (30) than the BTR list(28)?

Good question - what was I thinking? Perhaps I gave a little discount for buying it through the company as opposed to getting it as a Specialist unit? I'll think further on that.

Gun-Pit Paul wrote:Artillery
3) Any reason why you only get 2x 2s3 in a SPA Bty, but 3x 2s1?

Originally this was a game balance thing, but in the next iteration of the Motor Rifle List the 2s3's will be removed completely from teh Artillery ection and only available under the Additional Fire Support Section anyway.

Gun-Pit Paul wrote:4) Why can you get the 2s4 at this level? it's a Front level weapon, not a Btn level one?

The 2s4 is also going to be removed from this section and only possibly available in the Additional Fire Support section.

Hope that answers your questions

Richard
Gun-Pit Paul
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:08 am
Cheers Rich

On the look out for others Very Happy

Paul
Zauberlehrling
Posts : 5
Join date : 2018-04-24

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:56 am
Hey Richard,

it`s me, again with a question about the Soviet Leningrad List. I read through it and was wondering that the T-72 have the battledrill special rule and the T-55 or T-62 platoon/company not. Is there any reason for? I`m asking because the tank units (platoons and companies) of the motorrifle company and the armoured list have it.

Thanks!

Chris
alicks
Posts : 21
Join date : 2018-04-03
Location : UK

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:56 am
Hi Richard

Quick Questions:

1#. Should the BMP-1P have the dismount ATGM special rule? I was not aware they were able to dismount them and use them like the milan on the marder.

2#. On the FHQ in the Armoured List, what is the advantage of taking a BMP-1Ksh at a +5pts cost when it is worse (has no cannon, or ATGM, or special rules) than standard BMP-1P that comes with the unit?
Should this not be a -5pt reduction to take this worse option?

3# How come there is no option for the 9P149 (MT-LB) vehicle with 9M114 (spiral) ATGM missile?

Thanks

Alex
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:39 am
Zauberlehrling wrote:it`s me, again with a question about the Soviet Leningrad List. I read through it and was wondering that the T-72 have the battledrill special rule and the T-55 or T-62 platoon/company not. Is there any reason for? I`m asking because the tank units (platoons and companies) of the motorrifle company and the armoured list have it.

Hi Chris

Please note the Soviet lists currently available are now a wee bit out of date. I've changed the way officers are counted, the way Battle Drill works and reduced the points cost for many of the tanks. Any Soviet platoon of tanks or motor rifle infanrty should be considered to have the Battle Drill special rule.

Hopefully I'll update the lists this weeks.

Richard
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:49 am
alicks wrote:1#. Should the BMP-1P have the dismount ATGM special rule? I was not aware they were able to dismount them and use them like the milan on the marder.

Hi Alex

In the Osprey BMP books it says that the BMP-1P has a small mounting lug added to the turret roof, and the gunner must mount the 9P135 firing post onto the lug, from it's storage position in the hull. I think I also read elsewhere that you could take that firing post and use it as a ground mount. That's why I originally had the Dismount ATGM rule there.

I've played a couple of games where the Soviets dismounted the ATGMs off their BMPs and I guess to me it didn't feel right. It looks like I've already removed it from every other BMP, so unless anyone has an issue with it I'm planning on removing the dismount ATGM option for the BMP-1P as well.

alicks wrote:2#. On the FHQ in the Armoured List, what is the advantage of taking a BMP-1Ksh at a +5pts cost when it is worse (has no cannon, or ATGM, or special rules) than standard BMP-1P that comes with the unit?
Should this not be a -5pt reduction to take this worse option?

Coolness is about the only advantage. I'll have to reconsider that!

alicks wrote:3# How come there is no option for the 9P149 (MT-LB) vehicle with 9M114 (spiral) ATGM missile?

For some reason I thought it did not enter service until after my timeframe. I now think that is wrong so it will be added as a Specialist Unit.

Thanks for questions and spotting things that I missed.

Richard
alicks
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Location : UK

Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:11 am
Hi Richard

Just looking at the T64 Tank Company in the Soviet Armoured List.

Think you have over pointed them by about 75pts, I am assuming your idea was to have them more or less the same cost as buying 3 platoons and the company commander rule was a free upgrade?

That is how the T72 and T80 companies work out, costing the same as 3 platoons.

The T62 company works out 10pts more expensive than buying 3 platoons, but its in the ball park.

However the T64 company is 75pts more expensive than taking 3 platoons.

Should the cost not be around 600pts?


Also the Cost of the BMP2 company is 30pts more than taking 3 separate platoons, while the BMP1 company is 5pts cheaper than taking 3 platoons.

Following the logic of the BMP1 company, should the BMP2 company not be 460pts instead of 495pts?

Cheers

Alex
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RichardC
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:43 am
Hi Alex

I've completely re-pointed the Soviet Tank Div list and will be using that as a guide to re-point the other Soviet lists. I hope to post up the next versions later this week.

Thanks

Richard
alicks
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

on Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:51 am
Hi Richard

Looking forward to them.

Alex
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Re: Feedback/Comments/Questions on Soviet Lists

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